Thursday, July 24, 2014, 10am to 11:30 in the Meeting Room (behind the fireplace)
The group had a lot to say about immigration, though somewhat disorganized. While that was normal, there was a sense of frustration because we hopped for issue to issue. Nevertheless, the group wanted to spend another week on the immigration topic.
Please leave a comment on the blog on what immigration issue you want to discuss. We will discuss the issues in the order that they are submitted.
From Alice Pham:
ReplyDeleteHere's the reason our media doesn't refer to the folks coming in from Central America as "refugees." We would be in violation of UN Treaty signed in 1951 if we called them "refugees "and sent them back!
The 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 protocol defines a refugee as a person who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country..."
Under international law, refugees must not be forced back to the countries they have fled. This principle of nonrefoulement is the key provision of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention, which defines international law and guidelines to protect refugees. Host governments are primarily responsible for protecting refugees and most states fulfill their obligations to do so. Others, however, avoid their responsibility by pointing to a lack of resources, threats to national security, fears of domestic political destabilization, or the arrival of even greater numbers of refugees. This is a violation of international law that is binding on all states.
Nice point. Your issue, Why the children are not refugees?, will lead off next week's discussion.
DeleteChildren are being deported back to Honduras, http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/15/us-usa-immigration-idUSKBN0FK29N20140715,
Delete"A charter flight on Monday from New Mexico to San Pedro Sula, the city with the highest murder rate in the world, transported 17 Honduran women, as well as 12 girls and nine boys between the ages of 18 months and 15 years."
Apparently, they did not qualify for humanitarian relief.
From Stan,
ReplyDeleteMichael, I hope to be there Thursday if the creek don't rise. It would seem unrelated when first considered, and perhaps too far afield for our discussion, but an important and causative factor to our agony is our misbegotten war on drugs.
The war on drugs is very relevant to our discussion on immigration, particularly the children immigration from Central America.
DeleteThis can be the second issue in next weeks's discussion.
Maybe addiction needs a session of its own. Drugs impact crime, quality of life, health, etc. If there were no drug problem wouldn't we still have an immigration problem?
DeleteThe War on Drugs pushed the drug gangs to Central America, which is the reason children are fleeing from there.
DeleteHere are two articles on how drug legalization can curtail the drug cartels.
DeleteMarijuana legalization hurting Mexican drug cartels
Why Stop At Weed? The Case For Legalizing Cocaine, Heroin and Every Other Drug
Nothing is, or should be either black or white. What we need is to disperse these children among families willing to care for them while court action is pending. Even if it takes years, each case must be looked at separately.
ReplyDeleteGiving them legal status while their case is pending, is the way to go. Neither deporting them nor blindly adopting them is a good answer!
Al Goldman
There is another immigration issue that bugs me. My wife had to study for a citizen test. Others should have to take that too!
Let this be the third issue. Should treat these children with compassion, regardless of unintended consequences.
DeleteFrom Vince:
ReplyDeleteNorm was on target when he suggested we see what U.S. Policy is on immigration before we continue on discussion. I found a web site that laid out the basics of US policy. The web sit is: immigrationpolicy.org. The organization is the Immigration Policy Center. U.s. Policy is much more complex than I realized. The policy is also infused with much Executive discretion.I have come to better understand the difference between immigration 'law" and "policy." and 'If you find other sources of information on policy please inform the group..
I might be a good idea to review immigration policy after Al had his say about show compassion to children.
DeleteZoomers:
ReplyDeleteAs I reflect on our last meeting that discussed immigration, especially the humanitarian issue of youth from Central America being detained at our borders, I’d like to clarify and expand upon a few comments I offered at that time.
I was surprised at the beginning of the meeting that we were not going to offer some observations about US immigration policy. I felt it was quite important to have a legal and policy context for any discussion on any portion of immigration policy. Therefore, I was quite verbal and concerned about how we started the discussion on the crisis facing US and the Central American youth at our borders. I in no way want to be interpreted as not having concern for the health and safety of the youth. I do believe that human rights and safety are important. However, these issues constitute only a facet of the US immigration policies and the attending problems of current policy.
At the bottom of the immigration issue I feel that the US has a completely dysfunctional political system at this time. Without addressing the political system, border problems, including immigration which can view from a broad political spectrum, as well as, a host of other problems facing this country, it is difficult for me to see this Nation advancing issues in the democratically responsive manner.
It appears to me, that if the United States has a law that requires that all youth get a fair and reasonable hearing by the government, then there are policy options. First, we should fund the law, so that it is carried out in effective and efficient way. Secondly, if we don’t believe the current law concerning youth from Central America is still a good law, then the law should be changed. Broad complicated policies, in the past, have often been tweaked and changed as problems were recognized in the implementation of the policy. Not in today’s political system. Why not amend laws to make them suitable for reasonable implementation. That’s not possible given our current politicians who would rather have major political decisions be resolved by the Supreme Court, rather than by a legislative process driven by elected officials. It appears that our political leaders are not capable of making such needed policy decisions. Politics, in the smallest sense of the word, prevails. I do not insinuate that politics is bad. Politics is necessary for addressing public problems. I mostly see political posturing not only on immigration issues, but across the policy spectrum.
Vince